Discussion:
mongolian language
(too old to reply)
etta
2005-11-15 22:35:25 UTC
Permalink
Hello!
Who can tell me that: I know Chinggis Khan was called also 'Termujin' -
and I want to learn the meaning of that word or name. Is 'ter' a
prefix? Was that name connected with the leaders role of 'Holy Great
Smith' ? It will be interesting to be in this group.
Chetterdim.
Bayerlugh!

Etta
Morpheus Descends
2005-11-16 22:33:58 UTC
Permalink
On 15 Nov 2005 14:35:25 -0800
Mother's eyes are sparkling diamonds, still the moon shows no light,
This rose is withered, may God deliver,
The rake at the Gates of Hell tonight!
Post by etta
Hello!
Who can tell me that: I know Chinggis Khan was called also 'Termujin' -
and I want to learn the meaning of that word or name. Is 'ter' a
prefix? Was that name connected with the leaders role of 'Holy Great
Smith' ? It will be interesting to be in this group.
Chetterdim.
Bayerlugh!
"Ter" is a pronoun for he/she/it.

The name "Temujin" translates into English as "of Iron", "Smith" or
"Blacksmith", although there is no evidence that Temujin had smithing
as an occupation. Like any nomad of the time he was familiar, at least
partially, with the working of iron and steel for horse-shoeing and
weaponry. He was given the name Temujin, after an enemy chief whom his
father had captured in battle.

There are many theories for the origins of Genghis' title; this
uncertainty is fueled by the fact that later members of the Mongol
Empire associated the name with the Mongol word for strength, "ching",
though this does not fit the etymology. One theory about the etymology
suggests the name stems from a palatalised version of the Mongolian
and Turkish word tenggiz, meaning "ocean," "oceanic" or
"wide-spreading". Lake Baikal and ocean were called tenggiz by the
Mongols. However it seems that if they had meant to call Genghis
tenggiz they could have said (and written) "Tenggiz Khan", which they
did not. Zhèng (Chinese: "jung") meaning "right", "just", or "true",
would have received the Mongolian adjectival modifier -s, creating
"Jenggis", which then was modified by later scribes in India or Persia
to "Genghis". It is likely that contemporary Mongols would have
pronounced the word more like "Chinggis". Chingis Khan is the spelling
used by the modern Republic of Mongolia.

Morpheus Descends (http://tinyurl.com/6gkxv)
"Out of the belly of Hell cried I, and thou heardest me."

Domine Satanus dabit benignitatem et terra nostra dabit fructum suum.

"...another strange thing happened. He said, "Don't you understand?
I am in hell...Don't let me go back to hell!" ...the man was serious,
and it finally occurred to me that he was indeed in trouble.
He was in a panic like I had never seen before."

"Out of the bottomless abyss of Heklafell, or rather, out of Hell itself,
rise melancholy cries and loud wailings, so that these can be heard
for many miles around...there may be heard in the mountain fearful
howlings, weeping and gnashing of teeth." ©666
etta
2005-11-23 08:54:54 UTC
Permalink
Thank you, many part of your message I dont understand well but only
that about Chinggis Khan, Thank You.
I read about histoic or mythic person Alan Goa, do you know that name
also, and its meaning. is it base Al, Ala, what do these words mean in
Mongol language, do you know that? Is there online some place to find
such knowledge for myself? What about Goa?

I look forward to share your good information about it.

E.Y.
Morpheus Descends
2005-12-04 18:45:33 UTC
Permalink
On 23 Nov 2005 00:54:54 -0800
Mother's eyes are sparkling diamonds, still the moon shows no light,
This rose is withered, may God deliver,
The rake at the Gates of Hell tonight!
Post by etta
Thank you, many part of your message I dont understand well but only
that about Chinggis Khan, Thank You.
I read about histoic or mythic person Alan Goa, do you know that name
also, and its meaning. is it base Al, Ala, what do these words mean in
Mongol language, do you know that? Is there online some place to find
such knowledge for myself? What about Goa?
I look forward to share your good information about it.
The wife of Dobun-mergen was Alan-goa (Outstanding Beauty), and she
bore him two sons: Bugunutei and Belgunutei. He died shortly after
their birth, yet Alan-goa gave birth to three more sons; Buqa-qatagi,
Buqatu-salji, and Bodonchar-mungqaq. Now Dobun-mergen had a faithful
servant called Maaliq Baya'ud, whose father he had saved from
starvation in the wilderness, and after the death of the chieftain
this servant remained and dwelt in his yurt. Then the trueborn sons of
Dobun-mergen whispered against their mother, saying:

"This mother of ours has produced three sons, without our father's
older brother, younger brother, or cousins or any husband. Only the
Maaliq Baya'ud man lives in this yurt. They are probably his three
sons." (It was the custom of the Mongols that when a man died, one of
his male relatives would take his widow as wife, so that any children
would remain his true kin.)

Alan-goa, hearing these rumors, brought her five sons together and
gave each an arrow, which she commanded him to break. When they had
done so, she tied five arrows together and again commanded each son to
break the bundle. When each had tried and failed, she related to them
this story, in order to allay the suspicion of her two firstborn sons:

"Every night, a shining yellow man came into the yurt through the
light of the smoke-hole and over the top of the door. He caressed my
belly and his light sank into it. He slunk sheepishly away like a
yellow dog by the light of the sun and moon... All five of you were
all born of this same belly. Alone, you can be broken easily by
anyone. Together and of one mind, like bound arrow-shafts, none can
easily vanquish you. (Supposedly this yellow man was Tengri, supreme
god of the Mongol religion.)


[kol-barghujin töküm-ün ejen barghudai-mergen-ü ökin barghujin ?uu-a
neretei ökin-i qori-tümed-ün noyan qorilartai-mergen ögdegsen azughu]

There is potential for confusion here due to the use of the word
‘ökin’ twice, so close together. The solution is that the first is
used in the sense of ‘daughter’ as in ‘Bargudai-Mergen’s daughter’ and
the second is used more generally in the sense of ‘girl’ as in
‘Bargudai-Mergen’s daughter - a girl named Alan Goa

Gloss 1: As for this group of people, the Lord of the
Köl-Barguchzhin-tokum valley Bargudai-Mergen’s daughter, a girl named
Barguchzhin-Goa, had been given (in marriage) to Qorilartai-Mergen, a
Qori-Tümed prince, and in the land of the Qori-Tümed, at Arigh-Usun,
from Qorilartai-Mergen’s Barguchzhin-goa was born there the girl named
Alan-Goa.

Gloss 2: As for this group of people, the Lord of the
Köl-Barguchzhin-tokum valley Bargudai-Mergen’s daughter, a girl named
Barguchzhin-Goa, had been given in marriage to Qorilartai-Mergen, a
Qori-Tümed prince, and there in the land of the Qori-Tümed, at
Arigh-Usun, from Qorilartai-Mergen’s wife Barguchzhin-goa was born the
girl named Alan-Goa.

9.2 [qori-tümed-ün qorilartai-mergen-ün ökin arigh-usun-a törügsen
alan-ghuu-a-yi tende ghuyuju dobun-mergen-ü abughsan yasun teimü]

Gloss 1: And it was here at Arigh-Usun, at the place of her birth,
that Dobun Mergen had asked to marry and then taken as his wife,
Alan-Goa, daughter of Qorilartai-Mergen of the Qori-Tümed. And their
line was as follows...

10.1 [alan ghuu-a dobun-mergen-dur irejü qoyar köbegün törügülbe
bugunutai belgunutai nereten bülüge]

Gloss 1: When Alan Goa came to Dobun Mergen she bore him two sons,
Bugunutai and Belgunutai.


By the 11th century Zabaikalje had been inhabited by Mongol-speaking
tribes.

But yet they didn't form a united whole; they had weak connections
with each other and spoke different dialects. Buryat tribes were first
mentioned in the famous Mongolian chronicle "Innermost Legends" which
dates from the beginning of the 13th century. The chronicle says that
in 1206 Chinggis Khaan sent his elder son Dzhuchi to conquer the "wood
peoples", who would not surrender to the Mongolian conquerors. Among
these peoples the Oirats, Buryats, and Barguts are mentioned. Roots of
the Buryat people, however, can be traced back much further that the
13th century. "Innermost Legends" tells about the foremother of the
Mongolian-speaking peoples, Alan-goa by name, and about her son
Bodonchar: "And as for that tribe it has been found that
Barguchzhin-goa, a daughter of Barhudai-mergen, the ruler of
Kol-Barguchzhin-tokum, married Khoriltai-mergen, son of
Barguchzhin-goa from Qori-Tümed land in Arih-usun locality".
Long before Chinggis Khaan the Qori-Tümed represented the union of
tribes; later on they became a part of the Buryat people. Ten
generations separate Chinggis Khaan and his ancestor Alan-goa. A list
of ancestors' names in the genealogy of Chinggis Khaan makes it
possible to determine that Alan-goa lived in the second hah" of the
9th century. There already existed tribal groupings which later
constituted the core of the Buryat people.

Here follows the true record of the heritage of the great lord
Chinggis Khaan, Emperor of the World, Lord of the Seven Climes, Khaan
of Khaans and Master of Thrones and Crowns, set down within the Secret
History of the Mongols in the year 1228 of Our Lord by Shigi Kutuku,
the scribe of his son Tolui, at the Great Kuriltai of Kode'earal.
Herein is traced the ancestry of Temujin to the twenty-second
generation, from the first arrival of his ancestors Borte Chino and
Qo'ai-maral in the land of Mongolia.

i. Borte Chino and Qo'ai-maral
ii. Batachi Khan
iii. Tamacha
iv. Qorichar-mergen
v. Aujam-Boroul
vi. Sali-Qachau
vii. Yeke-nidu
viii. Sem-sochi
ix. Qarchu
x. Borjigidai-mergen
xi. Toroqoljin-bayan
xii. Dobun-mergen
xiii. Bodonchar (sometimes Buzanchar) son of Alan-goa. His name means
"The Fool". Upon the death of his mother Alan-goa, the brothers
of Bodonchar expelled him from the tribe, and he wandered alone
in the wilderness. He took a wife of the Jarchiut tribe, and
they had two sons. From the second son Qabichi-baatur came the
line of Chinggis Khaan.

xiv. Qabichi-baatur
xv. Menen-tudun
xvi. Qachi-kuluk
xvii. Qaidu
xviii. Bai-shingqor-doqshin
xix. Tumbinai-sechin
xx. Kabul Kaghan
xxi. Bartan-baatur
xxii. Yesugei
xxiii. Temujin, who later took the title of Chinggis Khaan.
artefact
2005-11-23 10:26:25 UTC
Permalink
If you can read French, there's an excellent book about history of the
Mongol Empire called "Histoire de l'Empire Mongol", by Jean-Paul Roux,
Fayard, ISBN 2213031649.
The complete history and ascendance of Chinggis Khan is described there.
Post by Morpheus Descends
On 15 Nov 2005 14:35:25 -0800
Mother's eyes are sparkling diamonds, still the moon shows no light,
This rose is withered, may God deliver,
The rake at the Gates of Hell tonight!
Post by etta
Hello!
Who can tell me that: I know Chinggis Khan was called also 'Termujin' -
and I want to learn the meaning of that word or name. Is 'ter' a
prefix? Was that name connected with the leaders role of 'Holy Great
Smith' ? It will be interesting to be in this group.
Chetterdim.
Bayerlugh!
"Ter" is a pronoun for he/she/it.
The name "Temujin" translates into English as "of Iron", "Smith" or
"Blacksmith", although there is no evidence that Temujin had smithing
as an occupation. Like any nomad of the time he was familiar, at least
partially, with the working of iron and steel for horse-shoeing and
weaponry. He was given the name Temujin, after an enemy chief whom his
father had captured in battle.
There are many theories for the origins of Genghis' title; this
uncertainty is fueled by the fact that later members of the Mongol
Empire associated the name with the Mongol word for strength, "ching",
though this does not fit the etymology. One theory about the etymology
suggests the name stems from a palatalised version of the Mongolian
and Turkish word tenggiz, meaning "ocean," "oceanic" or
"wide-spreading". Lake Baikal and ocean were called tenggiz by the
Mongols. However it seems that if they had meant to call Genghis
tenggiz they could have said (and written) "Tenggiz Khan", which they
did not. Zhèng (Chinese: "jung") meaning "right", "just", or "true",
would have received the Mongolian adjectival modifier -s, creating
"Jenggis", which then was modified by later scribes in India or Persia
to "Genghis". It is likely that contemporary Mongols would have
pronounced the word more like "Chinggis". Chingis Khan is the spelling
used by the modern Republic of Mongolia.
Morpheus Descends (http://tinyurl.com/6gkxv)
"Out of the belly of Hell cried I, and thou heardest me."
Domine Satanus dabit benignitatem et terra nostra dabit fructum suum.
"...another strange thing happened. He said, "Don't you understand?
I am in hell...Don't let me go back to hell!" ...the man was serious,
and it finally occurred to me that he was indeed in trouble.
He was in a panic like I had never seen before."
"Out of the bottomless abyss of Heklafell, or rather, out of Hell itself,
rise melancholy cries and loud wailings, so that these can be heard
for many miles around...there may be heard in the mountain fearful
howlings, weeping and gnashing of teeth." ©666
Morpheus Descends
2005-12-04 19:07:59 UTC
Permalink
On Wed, 23 Nov 2005 11:26:25 +0100
Mother's eyes are sparkling diamonds, still the moon shows no light,
This rose is withered, may God deliver,
The rake at the Gates of Hell tonight!
Post by artefact
If you can read French, there's an excellent book about history of the
Mongol Empire called "Histoire de l'Empire Mongol", by Jean-Paul Roux,
Fayard, ISBN 2213031649.
The complete history and ascendance of Chinggis Khan is described there.
A very good book.

There are a couple of books I recommend; (Mongoliin Nuuts Tovchoo)...
"The Secret History of the Mongols: The Life and Times of Chinggis
Khan (Institute of East Asian Studies) by Urgunge Onon (Editor),
Routledge/Curzon Press, 2001, ISBN: 0700713352.

The other is "Genghis Khan and the Making of the Modern World" by Jack
Weatherford, Crown, ISBN: 0609610627. This book is one of the best
study to date on Chinggis and his effect on world history.

Morpheus Descends (http://tinyurl.com/6gkxv)
"Out of the belly of Hell cried I, and thou heardest me."

Domine Satanus dabit benignitatem et terra nostra dabit fructum suum.

"...another strange thing happened. He said, "Don't you understand?
I am in hell...Don't let me go back to hell!" ...the man was serious,
and it finally occurred to me that he was indeed in trouble.
He was in a panic like I had never seen before."

"Out of the bottomless abyss of Heklafell, or rather, out of Hell itself,
rise melancholy cries and loud wailings, so that these can be heard
for many miles around...there may be heard in the mountain fearful
howlings, weeping and gnashing of teeth." ©666
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